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View Full Version : Blown head gasket ? 65 Pan



lioutofplace
09-20-2005, 12:56 AM
Hi guys, as you remember I just got a 65 fl which I thought was rebuilt, ok buyer beware....... I still got a good deal and would probley still buy the bike. Anyhow tell me if this sounds right.

first what I do know, Alm heads, hydro lifter(new front exc not pumped up), Black Diamond valves (new), valve springs (new) all other hardware looks ok. front head gacket blown above pipe (wet area3/4" long. inserts in head pull out around .005 ( dimple left in gasket) maybe the guy over torqued them. what else, exch valve guild front leaking, mechinc said it was way out of toleance. also the valve seats are brass (I don't know if this is normal).

i've been advised to have the heads reconditioned to get em flat, he said he could use whats there( valves ect...., put in teflon head gaskets for around $1300 the monies isnt my only concern, I just don't want to spend it again. also he advised using solid lifters instead hydro, I read the pro and cons from another posting, but as you can tell I'm no expert and probley should have spent my monies on a new machine, but I just don't like the new ones and I am a stuburn SOB with a pit bull grip.

does this sound like the good advise. Thanks for any help you can give. Mark

junior
09-20-2005, 04:31 AM
copper/bronze inserts are often used with titanium valves. this is compatible with unleaded....

hard to tell what you are saying about the head gasket, but i am assuming that there is an imperfection in the gasket seal surface. if so, be careful about how much material is removed as piston/valve clearance and static compression are altered. there are some o/s (thicker) gaskets available, but that selection is limited. check with your machinist...

the lifter question is a personal choice. imho, i like hydraulics, but if the cam profile is aggressive (higher ramp speeds), then a solid set may be in order...

fwiw-

j

Kagan
09-20-2005, 04:52 AM
I had solids in my '62 and hydraulics would have been nice. Pushrod adjustment isn't a huge deal, but it was an annual event. Junior mentioned your head gasket problem. You left it kind of vague. If the head produces a hiss from the gasket while "dry firing" (remove the plug leads) then it's time for a new gasket. Is your mechanic an old school guy? I'm not, but having owned a '62 for 9 years I can assure you that there are very few guys with the touch required to get a farqued up overhaul set right. Just keep in mind that that metal has been around a LONG time. I can't remember how many times I was asked "How many miles are on the bike?" Riiiight. The better question would have been "How many shit mechanics have torn into her and yet she's still running?" :D

Shorty
09-20-2005, 05:08 AM
Well crap....I saw the 'pants down, lubed up, lets ride' topic and thought "Now thats an invitation!" :lol:

Kagan
09-20-2005, 05:32 AM
Well crap....I saw the 'pants down, lubed up, lets ride' topic and thought "Now thats an invitation!" :lol:

And? Hell... it was!!! [where's the icon for drooling pervert?] :D

Ratbike
09-20-2005, 06:40 AM
Well crap....I saw the 'pants down, lubed up, lets ride' topic and thought "Now thats an invitation!" :lol:Damn it false advertising. Good thing, huh. Hydraulics are a much quieter bet on the lifters.

lioutofplace
09-20-2005, 10:09 AM
thanks guys, i'll keep you posted.

Wide
09-21-2005, 03:41 PM
1300 is a lot to have heads done


You may want to PM Heretic to see if he can help you, he machined many 65 heads

What do you mean by a blown head gasket?

Leaking at the top by the pan?

Maybe a good picture would help :D

lioutofplace
09-22-2005, 12:23 AM
thanks wide, it was leaking just above the ex port on the front, also the valve guild on the front ext was full of oil. when looking at the gasket it was between the inserts ( HEIRCOILS) the thing I was really concerned with was ( and maybe this is normal) the insert left a dimple in the gasket, using a straight edge ( no flat stone, or dial indiacator available) i would say the inserts were pulled out no more then .008, I'm thinking maybe the guy over tourged the heads, the guy at the shop seams to think the heads were over heated. what is a normal $$, things are fuc*ked up here on the island and you overpay like 20% for everything, this price also inculdes new lifters, push rods ect...... thanks for the reply if you can think of anything else please advise. I'm getting to know this stuff but if you ever need to know anything about houses I got started 30 yrs ago. Mark

Heretic
09-22-2005, 06:43 AM
first of all thanks for the vote of confidence Wide. B)
lioutofplace, when you say right above the exhaust (under the port as it sits on the engine)is where the gasket is blown, I think overheated. First off, ask your mechanic if the heads were torqued properly prior to disassembly. (I use a torque wrench to break the heads loose. If head bolts are too loose they have usually been too hot and have streched. If they are too tight the heads have often gotten WAY too hot, and have warped). This is usually only done by machinists, and trackside mechanics, and is not a common practice among shop mechanics, but if two bolts are much tighter or looser than the others, he may take notice. I think you are asking the wrong questions of the wrong people. If the inserts are pulled out you need to be talking to a machinist. You may have an excellent mechanic, and I am not trying to criticize, but milling a head requires a different type of training. If the heads are basically undamaged a good machinist may be able to mill the inserts down, then only remove a few thousandths from the heads. This will require a good machinist, and a turrett milling machine instead of just grinding it though. It may cost a little more, but may be a better way to go. I think a good(old time) machinist is your best bet, no matter what.
feel free to pm me if you have questions about machine work, or what to look for in a machinist.
also $1,300 is FAR too much for the work you have described.

lioutofplace
10-01-2005, 12:45 PM
Hi fellows just an up date. Bikes done, runs great, I do agree with you guys about the $$ being to much, I felt a little vunarable with my bike in the shop for the first time. I did tell him to go through it for peace of mind so if it cost me 1300 for that, well now I got it.


first off like I said the head gasket was blown, two lifters were colapesed, one valve was bent (not seated properly ), valve guilds were a little worn.
so, new guides, new valve, the rockers and everything looked good. I went to solid lifters, maybe this is a mistake, but... well see.

everything else on the bike is good to go, I had the shop go through the bike and they said the guy used all top notch parts and did a really nice job.
I'm thinking maybe he had a problem adjusting rods. either way I got a good price on the bike and am still well below what I think its worth.

So, thanks for everyones support, I'm sure I'll have many more many more questions, I'm going to rewire it this winter which will be here soon enough, you guys in the warmer climates have it made. Thanks again. Mark

Heretic
10-03-2005, 03:10 AM
glad to hear that you are back on the road. There is something addictive about the old iron. I own a pan myself, and have been threatening to sell it, but still ride it even though I have the RK. If you need help in the future PM me, and I will give you my phone #.

Wide
10-03-2005, 04:26 AM
Nothing like the sound & personalty


Really happy to here she's OK :wub:

lioutofplace
10-04-2005, 01:19 AM
Yea your right wide, she has a feel and personilty like nothing else. A cross between my pop's old 42 willies CJ2A and a 69 roadrunner I built with a neighbor when I was a kid. I'm glad I went with something worn out and out of date, sorta like me.

I had the cash money in my pocket to go buy a brand new road king, I walked in to the dealer, got the yea right look, I guess I didn't fit $500. brand new jacket, 200 dollar boots without a scuff, and jeans I couldn't get in or out of look.

I have that baggie,worn out, forgot to shave thing going on, and I like it just like that so fuck em. Thanks again fellows, I'll take you up on that PM help. Mark

rwpatton
10-08-2005, 08:41 AM
Sounds like you solved the problem and I'm glad to hear it.

I'm a little late on this responce but it sounds like your tech knows his stuff. Overheated head bolts are junk and should not be reused. Another common problem is mounting heads that have been trued for warpage without fly cutting the combustion chamber so they will seal properly over the cyl. fire ring/circle on the top of jug.

fwiw

RW