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k-fly
08-26-2006, 10:36 AM
This sucks...
The new place I moved into has a nice size detached garage. Cool, except for one thang, NO 220. I had a friend that's "in the know" look and he said the house could'nt be tapped into because it's only 100 amp incoming.

I have a 220 mig, 220 tig, 220 plasma cutter, want 220 compressor, blaw,blaw... the guy says I need to call the local city utilities and have a seperate meter run to it. I'm think'n $$$$$, if they have to put in a seperate line. Is there some of you elect. guys out there that have any suggestions?

I read a thread that suggested some kinda "ask the experts in the trade"where a guy needs help in a field he does'nt know about and offers help in what he can, but I don't see one, yet. So, since this is welder related, I thought I'd post it here...

oh yhea, did I mention that I'm low budget??

OJGP
08-26-2006, 12:03 PM
This sucks...
The new place I moved into has a nice size detached garage. Cool, except for one thang, NO 220. I had a friend that's "in the know" look and he said the house could'nt be tapped into because it's only 100 amp incoming.

I have a 220 mig, 220 tig, 220 plasma cutter, want 220 compressor, blaw,blaw... the guy says I need to call the local city utilities and have a seperate meter run to it. I'm think'n $$$$$, if they have to put in a seperate line. Is there some of you elect. guys out there that have any suggestions?

I read a thread that suggested some kinda "ask the experts in the trade"where a guy needs help in a field he does'nt know about and offers help in what he can, but I don't see one, yet. So, since this is welder related, I thought I'd post it here...

oh yhea, did I mention that I'm low budget??

Just because you have "only" a 100A service doesn't mean you don't have "220". Unless the service to your house is extremely old it's probably rated at 120/240 volts at 100 amperes. As far as "how much" you can add to that service (in amps) depends purely on how much it's loaded to now. If you send me your best guesses with this information: square ft. of the house, number of receptacle circuits (not the number of receptacles but the number of circuits) in the kitchen, nameplate ratings of your range/dryer/water heater/furnace/AC unit, and any other special loads like dishwasher/disposal/sump pump/water pump/sewage pump, I'll do a load calculation for you. If your major appliances are gas you're probably out of the woods as far as using the service you have and will just have to run a feeder to the garage. Of course this too depends on how much load you're going to place on the feeder. So send me everything you know - including the ratings of your shop equipment - and I'll lend you a hand.

OJGP
08-26-2006, 12:05 PM
This sucks...
The new place I moved into has a nice size detached garage. Cool, except for one thang, NO 220. I had a friend that's "in the know" look and he said the house could'nt be tapped into because it's only 100 amp incoming.

I have a 220 mig, 220 tig, 220 plasma cutter, want 220 compressor, blaw,blaw... the guy says I need to call the local city utilities and have a seperate meter run to it. I'm think'n $$$$$, if they have to put in a seperate line. Is there some of you elect. guys out there that have any suggestions?

I read a thread that suggested some kinda "ask the experts in the trade"where a guy needs help in a field he does'nt know about and offers help in what he can, but I don't see one, yet. So, since this is welder related, I thought I'd post it here...

oh yhea, did I mention that I'm low budget??

Just because you have "only" a 100A service doesn't mean you don't have "220". Unless the service to your house is extremely old it's probably rated at 120/240 volts at 100 amperes. As far as "how much" you can add to that service (in amps) depends purely on how much it's loaded to now. If you send me your best guesses with this information: square ft. of the house, number of receptacle circuits (not the number of receptacles but the number of circuits) in the kitchen, nameplate ratings of your range/dryer/water heater/furnace/AC unit, and any other special loads like dishwasher/disposal/sump pump/water pump/sewage pump, I'll do a load calculation for you. If your major appliances are gas you're probably out of the woods as far as using the service you have and will just have to run a feeder to the garage. Of course this too depends on how much load you're going to place on the feeder. So send me everything you know - including the ratings of your shop equipment - and I'll lend you a hand.

k-fly
08-26-2006, 12:32 PM
I'll get more info for you, but right now I know that it's only about a 900 sq.ft. house. Have a 220 dryer, 220 window unit (a/c),thats being upgrated to a central air/heat. The heat is gas, but the a/c will require 30 amp(what I am told), thats everything in the house thats 220. I don't know how many "circuits" there are yet, but I do know that the old fuse box has been upgraded to a breaker...The guy"in the know" said it wasn't the breaker box but the line in that was to small, 100 amp?

The equipment I need to run in the shop requries at least a constant 60amp, I think. I will be more specific when I get my data together....This might give you some idea what I'm looking at....

CoolMaker
08-26-2006, 12:39 PM
In order to run the equipment correctly, you will need to either upgrade the house to 200 amp, or install a separate one in the garage. As it is a separate building, I would op for the new service in the garage and be sure to make it 200 amp for future expansion. Remember that electrical tools like to have full voltage, so that you don't get brownouts. Running it from the house can do that sometimes. ;)

k-fly
08-26-2006, 01:00 PM
In order to run the equipment correctly, you will need to either upgrade the house to 200 amp, or install a separate one in the garage. As it is a separate building, I would op for the new service in the garage and be sure to make it 200 amp for future expansion. Remember that electrical tools like to have full voltage, so that you don't get brownouts. Running it from the house can do that sometimes. ;)

I think your right.... better bite the bullit!!!!!!!!!

junior
08-26-2006, 01:05 PM
you need to be more concerned about amperage than voltage. for instance, my 220v compressor is 30A, welder- 50A, so there's 80A already. your incoing service is already maxed without the house itself. i pulled a seperate 100A for just my shop- even with 150A to the house itself.....

j

k-fly
08-26-2006, 01:57 PM
you need to be more concerned about amperage than voltage. for instance, my 220v compressor is 30A, welder- 50A, so there's 80A already. your incoing service is already maxed without the house itself. i pulled a seperate 100A for just my shop- even with 150A to the house itself.....

j

of course you can't run every thing at once, so is a seperate 100 amp to the shop a "happy place" more or less?

CoolMaker
08-26-2006, 02:02 PM
you need to be more concerned about amperage than voltage. for instance, my 220v compressor is 30A, welder- 50A, so there's 80A already. your incoing service is already maxed without the house itself. i pulled a seperate 100A for just my shop- even with 150A to the house itself.....

j

I agree Jr, but a long run from one bldg to another, can make for a voltage drop as well, especially if the wire is not sized right. And that is bad for a plasma, tig or mig welder also. The cost of a 200 amp is not much more than a 100 amp panel. If it was my shop, I would put the 200 amp in. Then "no worries mate". ;)

k-fly
08-26-2006, 02:19 PM
I have to agree with everybody....
I just think that when i call my local utilities, they are going to shove it up my ass to set a new line to the shop. Thats the only thing that will make it all work... thankx for bang'n your heads and spending the time to type all this out....I think I have to deal with the local utilities and see what they want to charge.....I have way too much money invested in my equipment to jepardize my equipment.........thanks......

btw/ was this in the right forum?

junior
08-26-2006, 02:24 PM
absotutely bud-

my point i guess was that with just two items that i know the loads for (he also has more he says) and a lights and recepts run that the exiting 100A panel was potentially exceeded without the house. most houses built before mid-80's or so only had 100A service, but also had only a range (30-50A) and a dryer(30A) perhaps. thr house current might have 4 to 6 15/20A runs. as you know, the calculations for the permit are not based on adding up the posted amperages, but rather a percentage of available power based on occupancy (usually number of baths and BRs).

that being said, he might find that the whole service question comes into play even before the garage/shop load is considered if he adds HVAC to the house. in fact, might be that a 150A house panelk and a 200A sshop panel are what is required.

either way- best to consult with an electrician, pull permits and do it right. insurance companies are funny that way....

j

CoolMaker
08-26-2006, 03:00 PM
jr is right, I am in the HVAC business, and see houses all the time that want a heat pump and they have to upgrade the electrical service to the house.

Shop the work for the garage, there is allot of difference in the prices of different companys. The utility company down here does not charge for hooking up to your service. Besides all they have to do is to hook up to your pipe jack. The electrician installs all the other stuff. ;)

RamMedic
09-17-2006, 01:44 PM
I am in the process of building a shop as well. I ran into severe problems with my local electric company. Mega $$$$$$$ to get separate meter and such. So I am pulling 60 amps from the house to the shop. I won't be running 220, and if I do, I can use my generator for it. I will have 3 20 amp breakers and that is the way it has to be. I guess I will just deal with it.

junior
09-18-2006, 04:06 AM
make sure you use at least 6/3 wire from the main to the sub.....

j

Grogtronics
12-12-2006, 02:11 AM
Reading through this post makes me feel really lucky.
I bought my house this past summer and there is only one 15 amp circuit in the garage which cant even run my air compressor. I went down to my local coop and sat down with one of the engineers he called up the specs on my house 150 amps and told me they would upgrade the incoming feeder and install a larger meter for free and recomended that I hook up with an electrician to do the final hook up. (I'll be doing all the wiring in the garage and to the meter). he said that would make life easier for the city inspection.
So I guess living with a Electrical coop can actualy be a good thing after all.

k-fly
12-16-2006, 09:09 PM
I put the shop wiring on hold while I installed central heat/air in the house. In the spring, I'll get my ultilities out to see. It's looking to run me around 1500.00 to get the service to the shop. Yea, I wish I had co/op.