PDA

View Full Version : Don't pay too much



wreckerman
08-30-2004, 03:38 AM
:o A friend of mine from work, stopped by on his new 2005 RK custom, carborated model. He was bursting at the seams and smiling ear to ear, so I want out and took a good look at his bike and except for the funky beach bars the bike is awesome. So while having a drink with him, we started discussing the details of the bike and here is what I found out. He got 8 year financing though Harley Davidson, put $3000.00 down and is making payments of $300.00 per month quick math in my head computes this to $31,200.00 payback, now this is for a 2005 custom stock with carborator sales tax and prep, 3 year extended service (what a rip) Now get this he does not have an M classification for his liecence, (first bike he has ever owned) how can a dealer sell a person a bike without an endorsement should there be some kind of responsiblity here, does not have bike insurance won't he need the endorsement to get this, so he's riding around no training, no insurance, and no endorsement, this is just plain ludicrous. Before buying a bike people should think this though all the way, just my $.02, but I had to blow off steam.

arthureld
08-30-2004, 05:04 AM
My credit sucks, and I would probably pay a lot more than that if I financed for 8 years. I'm approved for 19.9% financing which is outragous. So I'm still working on getting a better rate. I'm putting a lot more than $3000 down. And will finance for 2 years or less.
When I first started looking for a bike, I told a dealer that I didn't have a license and he said he'd sell me one anyway. You would think there would be some kind of liability there. My driving record sucks too, so I'm not taking any chances. I got my motorcycle license a couple of weeks ago.
And as far as insurance, I stopped paying for insurance once on a car that I had financed. When the bank found out, they put their own insurance on the car which was more than I was origanally paying plus it didn't cover liability. I won't even pick my bike up until I have the insurance paperwork. As you probably already guessed, I'm required to have insurance or my license will be suspended.

animal
08-30-2004, 06:04 AM
My credit sucks too. I drove a fucking ugly 750 honda, and an old suzuki for 10 years and saved my money to pay cash for my Harley $19,200 cash. I'm not rich. If I was making payments I wouldn't be able to afford insurance. That's one of the reasons I'm so proud of my ride, because I saved every dime I had for a long time. but, now I can say it's my harley, it doesn't belong to the bank. It was a lifelong dream for me come true. ^_^

speedman
08-30-2004, 01:11 PM
Wow. That's a ton of money. They actually dropped the price of the Road Kings in Canada this year. The same bike here is $24k CDN, which is $18,256.26 USD at today's exchange rate.

Btw, I kind of like those bars. I have two buddies with beach bars on their Kings and they look awesome. At least one of them (maybe both) will be with me in DFW in a couple of weeks and you'll see them then.

arthureld
08-30-2004, 02:11 PM
[quote="speedman"]Wow. That's a ton of money. They actually dropped the price of the Road Kings in Canada this year. The same bike here is $24k CDN, which is $18,256.26 USD at today's exchange rate.

Are you including tax and license? In Los Angeles, tax is 8.25%. The out the door price on that bike would be about $20,000.00 and up here.

Animal,
I might just pay cash for my bike. I've been saving my money too. But, I would like to establish some credit so I'm thinking about financing about $5000.00. If they don't come down on the rate, I'll just pay cash.

Oli1200
08-30-2004, 04:08 PM
Sorry to say but it seems as though your friend with the custom RK is paying far too much. In Canadian dollars that bike (solid black, carb, no extras) would be roughly 29,000.00 with all taxes, freight and all the other mandatory crap included. At least in Ontario.

Even if I was rich I couldn't imagine paying over $20,000.00 for a "big" Harley. That's why I think the only Harley I'll ever be owning will be a Sportster.

wreckerman
08-30-2004, 10:54 PM
all good points guy's and that why i like you so much , i must have loss touch with reality, i did not realize that pepole would pay that much for a bike he has a interrest rate of 13% and i think that is like stealing from a working guy now i dont want you to think i got big bucks . i started off with used harleys that i would pay cash for then push them home to work on them after a while i would sell the bike and get a new moldel i kept this up with 6 bikes before i had the cash to buy a new one , now i try and get a new one every 5 years or so and it cost me about 5000,00 to bumb into a new one .. the 2 points i was trying to make was 1 how can a dealer sell a bike to someone without a indoresment and 2 this guy should have waited tell he had a little more money put up , it would have saved him a lot of money.. i just fell bad for co workers that beary them selfs in dept and i try to save them "the younger ones " from makeing the same mistakes that i have done in the past..but the bottom line is it's his life, and he has the harley he always wanted and he is happy , so i am happy for him...... B)

thorsblood
08-30-2004, 11:20 PM
Sold two triumphs a 650 bonneville hardtail, and a 71 Daytona along with a pile of parts, to pay 2000.00 for my 66 xlch. Rode it for 2 years, and sold it for 2200.00 and bought my 76 flh for 2300.00. Rode that for 13 years saved my pennies and paid cash for my 2002 flh standard. Sold the ol shovel to my brother for 6500.00 with the promise it comes back to me if he wants to sell. I paid 17,300 for the 02. Tax, title, plate.

Theoretically it would not be the sellers responsiblility for the buyer to posess any license or credentials. A buyer could simply own a bike without riding it. But, that being said. I think only a dumbshit would ride without the proper certification, insurance, license etc. The fines and penalties for not havin that shit have gotten astronomical lately.

As far as those high interest rates. I don't think I could swallow that pill. I am to cheap. I'd rather nursemaid a ratbike than pay that loanshark money. However, I cannot see myself living without a scooter no matter what.

wreckerman
08-30-2004, 11:48 PM
thorsblood, i totally agree the thing is when he first started asking about harley's i offered to help him get into a good used one, figuring he's a wrench the two of us could put in good shape quickly. I also offered to help him shop for new if that's what he wanted, but warned him of the expense, he just went off and got this bike on his own. I know what he makes per hour, I know how much his new mortgage is per month, and I know how much his used car payment is, I also know how much his tool payment's are and now with this bike payment he has less then $300.00 per month left to pay utility's, buy insurance, and food to eat, that is not to mention any other nescessities in life this bike will get repo'ed and he will loose everything he has into it, and the reason I'm so pissed is I hate to see this happen to a co-worker, especially when it could have avoided. Just call me mother hen...

speedman
08-31-2004, 12:46 AM
I think only a dumbshit would ride without the proper certification, insurance, license etc. The fines and penalties for not havin that shit have gotten astronomical lately.

Same deal here in Ontario. It's a $5000.00 fine for getting caught without insurance unless you can show the Judge tremendous financial hardship. Our courts are absolutely clogged with no insurance charges right now. The sad thing about it is that insurance has become nothing more than a piece of paper. Gawd forbid that you ever use it because the insurance companies will either drop you completely, or raise your premiums through the roof.

wreckerman
08-31-2004, 01:20 AM
good point speedman, i was reading another post about how much you guys pay in insurnce up there all i can say is... DAM... that's a lot of bucks,

speedman
08-31-2004, 01:30 AM
Our insurance situation here is fucked. There is no other way to describe it. While we get screwed over the insurance companies make record profits. It's just not right.

wreckerman
08-31-2004, 01:52 AM
thats how i feel here in the states, on a related issue when i bought my house 13 years ago, the insurnce was only 125.00 a year sence 9/11 it jumped to 525.00 for the same coverage,and you got to no they are makeing a bundel .besides that, my broker told me he was instucted to cancell anyone that had made a claim of 1500.00 or more in the last 2 years what's with that???

Buster
08-31-2004, 01:57 AM
All I can say is that just blows me away Wreckerman. I know lots of people that are overextended on their credit. I was at one time but I got tired of living from paycheck to paycheck. Now we live within our means.

I also saved up and paid cash for my Low Rider this year. I am saving right now for the next bike. People nowadays only look at the bottom line as to what they can pay a month.

Look at these people that are driving these $40 and $50,000 SUV's and I know they make less money than me. They either lease ( something I will never do) or have a big ass balloon note at the tail end.

What really floors me though is the fact that he and you are both wrenches and you volunteered to help him. I would give my left arm to have you living near me and volunteer your help to me!

Hopefully he has his bases covered and will be able to crawl out from under this burden with time. At least he can ride!!!

speedman
08-31-2004, 02:05 AM
They either lease ( something I will never do)

Not to go too far off topic, but here in Canada vehicle leases are a 100% non refundable tax credit for businesses and self employed people. I lease both of my trucks and save a bundle on my taxes as a result of doing it this way.

wreckerman
08-31-2004, 02:14 AM
buster , you are so right my first wife would not work at all and with raising 3 kids a wife and 2 dogs on a wrench's salary i got buried 18 years ago when i got divorced i walked away with my tools, a ratty sportster, and a beat up stationwagon no credit and leins on everything altough i am very smart money wise you have to have some to be able to make it work for you with determination and hard work from me and my current wife we now own our house, vehicles, and everything else outright. i will never ever be in debt again....

LaidBackRider
11-25-2004, 10:35 AM
While this thread was being discussed by you guys, I was taking my Riders Edge class in preperation for getting a bike. In the class I learned that according to the NM State Highway Patrol, 75% of the motorcycles riders in NM do not have a class M endorsement. (Side note_ in NM it is actually a class W for motorcycles. The story is that the person typing it into law had the paper upside down and made the M into a W.)

.

WolfSpectre
11-25-2004, 11:12 AM
Now get this he does not have an M classification for his liecence, (first bike he has ever owned) how can a dealer sell a person a bike without an endorsement should there be some kind of responsiblity here, does not have bike insurance won't he need the endorsement to get this, so he's riding around no training, no insurance, and no endorsement, this is just plain ludicrous.

Yes this is. I had to have my endorsement before I could buy my bike. Sounds like either the state needs to look at their laws or the dealer is scamming.

Harley-Ray
12-28-2004, 05:14 PM
When I bought my bike this year I had no endorsement on my license, I asked the dealer if this was going to be a problem during the negotiations and he said he could care less. When I got the insurance, the agent didn't even ask if I had the endorsement. If someone wants to be stupid, me for buying a bike without the endorsement, or my insurance company for insuring a 20k bike for someone without the endorsement that should be their personal or the companies business decision. I appreciate wreckermans concern for someone buying a bike with no license, but I don't want the government making more laws telling us what we can and cannot do, people are stupid and companies are stupid, making more inane laws will never stop stupidity. What's worse riding without a helmet or without the endorsement?? The less the laws there are the better. I would wager that while wrecker wants a law requiring the dealers to check for the endorsement he doesnt want the laws requiring helmets. The less laws the better. Personal choice YES, more laws NO. IMHO

Horse
12-28-2004, 06:54 PM
It's a matter of education, and simple mathematics vs. emotion and desire. Dealers invest a lot of time and resources in educating their sales force to accomplish what is most important to them, SALES, and they understand how to make the numbers work. Buyers are often driven by emotion and desire and sometime allow themselves to make decisions that turn out costly. Dealers have the advantage.

wreckerman's friend,,, a new 05 RK at this time of year (emotion / desire) is likely paying $300 per month to have this bike sit in a garage (over the winter) as opposed to saving $300 per month and increase the down payment and reduce the duration of the loan or the per month cost. With only $3,000 down, and financing costing $31,2000, this stock 05 RK is costing over $34,000. No one in their right mind would walk into a dealer and pay $34,000+

wreckerman
12-28-2004, 08:05 PM
you guys make some good points here , and you are correct i dont want more laws eather, and i would have waited tell spring and had more money down so i could save on the interrest, it is not for me to say what is right or wrong here , i just have concern for him like i would any one ealse , who is about to make a mistake "my opinion" and wanted to see if i was out in right field or what you guys thought .. sometimes i tend to be opionated, so i ask others....

momsridin
12-28-2004, 11:06 PM
Wreckerman, your a good friend to try and look out for the dude. I guess he just let his desire override his brain. Something I'm sure he will pay for down the road unless someone bails him out. When we bought my new sporty the dealer set us up with different insurance quotes right there on the spot. We set up our insurance over the phone before we left and we hadn't financed through HD. Neither hubby nor I had a M class but I was scheduled to take my MSF in 2 weeks after pickup. They still gave us insurance at a very good rate. I guess it's just me but there's no way I'm driving anything without insurance. Now I'm working OT shifts like a madwoman trying to piece together the cash to buy my Hubby a ride before too much of summer is over. I guess we all live and learn.

Harley-Ray
12-29-2004, 04:57 AM
Hey Wreck, you are a good friend to that guy, sounds like he has no business taking out a loan an a new scoot like he bought. I think we agree the world needs more common sense and less laws. However, that being said buying a Harley can get out of hand financially very quickly if you are not careful, and buying the bike as we all know is only the BEGINNING. lol

softailFXST2004
12-29-2004, 05:33 AM
I had no credit at all ...I put down 8000 and financed the rest at 7.62% intrest... How are all you guys getting ripped at 13%????? Come on over to edison Harley in jersey the lady there took care of everything for me!!!

softailFXST2004
12-29-2004, 05:36 AM
Oh yeah my yearly in surance for full coverage on the bike is 440 dollars I think thats cheap and I'm not rich...how much are you guys paying for insurance??? Im in jersey too the highest rates in the country!!!!

softailFXST2004
12-29-2004, 05:47 AM
Sorry 3 in a row....but I just had another thought...Who the hell buys a Harley with no m license??? I would never have started out on a Harley. I rode a cheap Kawasaki for 10 years first. I would never start out on an expensive bike like a Harley...what if you don't even like riding which you can't know if you never did it and what if you crash the thing thats a lot of money wasted. I think these guys going out buying Harleys especially big baggers for their first bikes are nuts. Posers, and dangerous people to be on the rode with. You gotta pay your dues first learning to ride and be safe on a cheapo jap bike thats light and easy to control before you can jump right in with the big boys!!! I would like to see that guy pass the rode test with his big bagger be he can't even get through the cones without putting a foot down! Or maybe he will rent a little kawasaki 100 like some people I know..... I took the test 11 years ago on my own bike a kawasaki 550LTD. and passed the first time. Anyway sorry for ranting just my opinion.............. :P

HoustonFatboy
12-29-2004, 06:46 AM
mom, you're making it hard to believe you are real. after reading all your posts, never with anything bad to say, and now this, you are the perfect woman!!

Now I'm working OT shifts like a madwoman trying to piece together the cash to buy my Hubby a ride before too much of summer is over. I guess we all live and learn.

momsridin
12-29-2004, 08:32 PM
Oh I'm far from perfect :D . I have selfish reasons for wanting to buy my hubby a bike. (Aside from the fact he deserves it for living in a house with 3 women :lol: ) I want a riding partner. He's been riding for years but without a bike for the last 8 or 9. I think I could learn more if I had an experienced rider along to point things out to me. So see, now my halo is tarnished. I'm selfish afterall. :P

NY90
12-29-2004, 09:41 PM
Oh yeah my yearly in surance for full coverage on the bike is 440 dollars I think thats cheap and I'm not rich...how much are you guys paying for insurance??? Im in jersey too the highest rates in the country!!!!

$440 ! I'm paying over $600 for minimal liability only in Brooklyn! caged

BikerBabe
12-29-2004, 09:51 PM
:o Wow! $326.00 to be exact!

Growlpipe
12-29-2004, 10:11 PM
Damn, $326.00. Good for you. I pay $643.00, full coverage. Bike-Line.

wreckerman
12-29-2004, 10:54 PM
it is so hard to compare insurence rates, from state to state and there are so many factors that effect the rate
your age
married or not
other vehicals
where you live state, county
driving record
credit rating
anti-theft device
year, make, and model of bike
and then there are what size deductable , how much coverage , uninsured drivers , medical , passenger medical , price of bike ...on and on but i think you get the idea here ..

momsridin
12-29-2004, 11:48 PM
$240 per year for us.

hogwylde
01-03-2005, 01:10 AM
I lucked out when buying my bike. My company gave everybody 313 shares ($17.76 ea) of cashless options in the company. It basically means that when I sell, I have to give the company back the value ($17.76 x shares sold) minus taxes and I keep the difference. I sold at $84.23. So I was able to buy my bike in cash. Wife wasn't too happy, but I gave her $5,000 leftover for her new bathroom. Was happy but still hates the bike..lol

As far as insurance goes.....I pay $800/yr for full coverage. I have a flawlessly perfect driving record, but those are the rates up here and companies like Progressive are not available here. But I am waiting for my DD214 (military records) so I can compare rates and possibly go with USAA

Buster
01-03-2005, 01:24 AM
Insured my Low Rider back in March with Progressive. Cost me 588.00 for full coverage for the year. When I added on the second bike a few weeks ago, they cut the rate down to 516.00 apiece with the same coverage.


Cheapest coverage I have been able to find around here and we both have clean driving records.

mtncop73
01-28-2005, 05:43 AM
As a cop and a cheapskate I have problems with a couple things that happened to your friend. When I started looking for my Ultra Classic, I found that The dealers hold thier prices tight and are afraid to give quotes. Once I started getting quotes, I had the ammunition to use to drive the prices of dealers down. If you are willing to do the work, you can find the bike you want at a reasonable price. (If you are willing to travel to get it!) As far as the endorsement, you don't need one to buy a bike, but you need one to drive it. The insurance is required to register the motorcycle but an endorsement is not (in Colorado anyway). Thats nuts! I stop people all the time with current registration and insurance but no drivers license. I don't get it. I guess if it is worth it to him we shouldn't worry but, I hate to hear about someone getting screwed.

Bhamgreg
01-31-2005, 02:59 AM
Compared several companies, went with Progressive, $346 full coverage.

And a heaty welcome to Mtncop73, have fun and please be sure to add your insights to the posts from the "other side of the driver's license".

wallymn
02-03-2005, 01:04 AM
If you have to get a loan don't go with the dealer, I thought about getting a loan before paying cash for my 04 FXDWG. The dealer wanted 8.9%. The credit union wanted 4.9% for a personal loan. Too much money but clearly the bank is a better deal.

macsRKC
02-04-2005, 01:52 PM
$320 for a new '05, but like Wreckerman said, I'm about as discounted as I can get based on:

State: MO
Your age: 39
Married or not: Y
Other vehicles: All through same insurer
Where you live state, county: Rural
Driving record: Clean (I fix my own tickets)
Credit rating: Low 800's
Anti-theft device: Y
Year, make, and model of bike: 2005 RK Classic
What size deductible: $100
How much coverage: Full
Medical: Maxed
Passenger medical: Maxed
Price of bike: $19.4K, which includes the $1000 in add-ons

Fxsts103ci
02-21-2005, 09:38 PM
My oldest boy went looking for a NightTrain FI w/ security system this past Saturday .. Out the door price $17550.03 . Tax tags prep. And on top of that they give a $500 gift card 15 % off anything(cept bikes and labor) for as long as he owns the bike.. he's in the process of getting the finance done. Has an ap in with his credit union.