V Rod bagger

lol - there's nothing wrong with displacement - it's when you hate the little engines just cause they're little that you start to advertise your...ahem... issues

It's amazing the horsepower some high-tech but stock 1000cc/liter bikes produce.

The new BMW S1000RR liter bike produces 193 horsepower straight out of the box -- and I understand the pre-production motor was detuned from over 200hp before it went into full production.

If you applied this output curve to the stock 96 cubic-inch (1584cc) H-D V-Twin motor, it should be producing 306 horsepower.

[tradrockrat]

Next door to me is Johnny Cheese's speed shop. He has 7 200MPh+ certificates on his wall from bikes he's made go fast. One is a stock bore turbo Busa that clocked 227. I've never heard of a Stock bore turbo Harley hitting 200.

I love my Harleys and I don't want a Busa, but then I'm not much interested in anything over 110-120 MPH. In fact I've been over 120 ONCE in my life. It was enough.

[Heretic]

been working, and at work now so not going to spend the time going back an reading up on this right now....but comparing bore size of a busa to the bore size of a HD is not a fair comparison unless you take the rest of the bike into consideration.....HD sells bikes on cruising ability. That is their market, so that is what they do. The bore to stroke ratio is set up just for this. it is the same reason you can not load down a busa with bags and a trailer and expect it to work as well as an undersquare bore/ stroke ratio bike would

You never ever hear a busa fan brag how in 08, suzuki petitioned NHRA, and received a weight reduction in competition busas because they could not remain competitive with the new HD models

you won't hear that either. it is just not something either company wants public. HD markets to older crowd, and busa fans want to brag about speed. Neither wants the press of stepping away from their target consumer. The potential is there, it is just untapped

Look, I am not going to waste my time explaining engine builds, or how to get the most out of either a V engine or an inline engine, unless someone really wants to listen. It is not worth my time, if it just going to be the same old marque vs marque argument.....if it is going to be an intelligent about the physics of what makes each work, and why, it is another matter completely......

... it is the same reason you can not load down a busa with bags and a trailer and expect it to work as well as an undersquare bore/ stroke ratio bike would...

A more fair comparison might be a BMW touring bike (R1200RT) vs. a H-D touring bike (Ultra Classic). The seemingly diminutive BMW carries more, goes farther and faster, and costs less. For all its mass, the Ultra Classic carries less, is slower, and costs more.

[align=center]2010 Harley Ultra Classic vs. 2010 BMW R1200RT

Both have air-cooled 2 cylinder engines.

Valves: 2 valves/cylinder pushrod vs. 4 valves/cylinder dual-overhead cam

Disp: 1584cc vs 1170cc

Wet weight: 886 lbs vs. 570 lbs.

GVWR: 1360 lbs vs. 1091 lbs

Load Capacity: 474 lbs vs. 521 lbs

Range: 324 miles 6 gal @ 54mpg vs. 431 miles 6.6 gal @ 65.3mpg

Acceleration 0-60mph: Not published vs. 3.8 secs

Top Speed: Not published vs. 124 mph (limited)

MSRP: $21,599 + $1,675 (solid color, abs, security, wheels) vs. $19,195 (Premium Pkg)[/align]

It's about time H-D put together a touring bike built on the V-ROD engine. That would be interesting to me.

[tradrockrat]

Heretic - I think you're actually making my point for me. All I'm saying (in fact all I ever said that started this whole discussion) is that displacement isn't the only thing because all the rest of it - all the stuff you just mentioned in fact - are NEVER equal.

To restate: My point is that if one looks down on the VROD because it's a smaller displacement engine than a Twinkie one is showing more about oneself than about the bikes. This is my only point I'm making.

And as for MHO - you can talk stock engine, or you can talk modified engines, but you can't compare the two, and a modified ENGINE is not the same as modified BIKE either.

In fact - here's a new point - in the end you pick the bike that suits you (if you're a smart shopper). That's why I have three bikes and would have a dozen more if I could. There isn't a single bike in existence that can do everything I want a bike to do.

Here's my list of things I need in my everyday bike FROM THE FACTORY -
Has to be able to go 100MPH for extended lengths
Has to be able to CORNER at speed
Has to be reliable
Has to be easy-ish to work on in a garage
Has to be able to be ridden 500 miles in a day without undue fatigue
Must have character - this is a factor that only be decided by me by actually test riding the bike

In my mind that describes a late model (evo era) 1200 Sportster to a tee - my perfect everyday bike. Bunches of them with well over 100K on the engine with no major rebuilding ever done to them. Mine went over 80K before I fucked it up out of ADD impatience - totally my fault.

But what about long trips with the wife? Shit add that in to the whole list and you're looking at an Ultra, BMW or even a Goldwing, but big fairing touring bikes do not work for me on an everyday rider level - at all - period - so I want a minimalist touring bike.

I bought a Road King, but if I had to do it over again I would not buy one - I was misled about the maintenance and reliability of the Twinkie engine. As I discovered after buying it - 40K is the magic "several things will now go to shit" number on a Twinkie. But I WOULD buy a Road King looking VROD if what I've heard about their reliability is true - I'd have to research it. Or maybe that 1200 BMW.

Now what about bar hopping? The Sporty handles that too, but almost any bike will. My SR is the bike of choice for it though.

What about one day fun rides on the weekends? My SR500 is the most fun you can have on a bike - I swear - but it won't break 85MPH. This bike is a true "toy" owned strictly because of it's emotional ties to me and my life - plus it's so simple to work on I actually enjoy wrenching it. It's even a blast on real twisties - something in short supply here in Texas. Out in Cali, my Sporty had the edge, with fully adjustable suspension and the forgiving gearing / torque.

So to sum it up -

In the end nothing is EVER equal when comparing bikes - we all need to deal with that fact.

Compare apple to apples and oranges to oranges as best you can

The best bike is the one that fits you best.

Oh yeah - the original point - Displacement isn't everything...